7/2/10

and one day the owner came home and was gravely disappointed

Following up on social engineering...

Estimates are that approximately 6% of the people in the world have no conscience. (Also see: Political Ponerology.)

Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.

You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.

In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.

You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.
You can also click on the little anti-sociopath logo top right and read the comments there. The sociopaths find the whole thing hysterically funny, as of course they would. Another excellent blogger on this topic: The Path Whisperer.

So what is it really like for them? An admitted psychopath describes his perspective.
Vaknin: "I like to present a facade of the self-effacing, modest person. It gives people the impression that, underneath it all, I'm human."

Walker: "But you are human, aren't you?"

Vaknin: "I firmly believe that you want to believe that, yes. ... [The psychopath] regards people as instruments of gratification and as disposable things to be used. ...

The vast majority of psychopaths, like an iceberg, are underwater, and like an iceberg, they are inert. They do nothing. They're just there.

They torment their spouse by being unempathic, but they don't beat her or kill her.

They bully coworkers, but they don't burn the office.

They are not dramatic. They are pernicious. Most psychopaths are subtle.

They are more like poison than a knife, and they are more like slow-working poison than cyanide."

After subjecting Walker to a series of degrading insults (a regular occurrence during filming), and with Walker still visibly in shock, Vaknin coolly, and with disturbingly sadistic insight, described the process to him:

"Your body was flooded instantly with adrenalin and its relatives like norepinephrine ... Now when these moments pervade the bloodstream, your brain reacts. It shuts down certain centers and activates others. This is called the stress reaction, or stress syndrome, actually. Then when the abuse recedes, the adrenalin levels begin to drop. As they drop, the entire system goes into mayhem.

So what bullies usually do, they start and stop, start and stop. That achieves the maximal stress syndrome, and this is the great secret of bullying. Never overdo it. Small doses. The victim will do the rest. - Although you are shaking much less [now] ... I must do something about that."
Six percent translates to approximately one in seventeen twenty-five people. (Proof I suck at math...)

^^^^^^^

Social engineering is a euphemistic way of describing how these predators control society -- through an elaborate network of NGOs, think tanks, corporations, media outlets, etc. It's not hidden. It's done openly because it's subtle, pernicious, slow-acting. Drip drip drip, until they created an ocean.



The founders of Tavistock realized that by repeating and alternating stress and reliefs, people became malleable.

Rees, Trist, Tavistock and their associates, used coercive techniques, applying all the same pattern induce psychological stress and physical strong in an individual, then relieve that stress. By dint of repeated alternating stress and reliefs, the "patient" eventually become malleable. The Tavistockiens tried to improve these coercive techniques in using electroshock therapy, hypnosis, and the administration of mind-altering drugs to "reprogram" their victims, or more commonly their washing brain.

..."One of the main techniques for breaking morale with a" strategy of terror "is precisely to keep people in constant blurring between where they are and when they wish to go. If one adds to this a frequent alternation of harsh disciplinary measures and promises of good treatment, while spreading contradictory news, the "cognitive structure" is so disturbed that the individual becomes incapable of knowing whether a particular plan might conduct toward its goal or away from it. Under these conditions, even individuals with defined objectives and are willing to take risks, will be paralyzed by severe inner conflict about what to do. " [7] ~ Kurt Lewin, pioneer of group dynamics
So did the Tavistock founders know these things instinctively, the way psychopath Vaknin does?

Tavistock is huge, and unquestionably prestigious.
Tavistock Institute has developed such power in the U.S. that no one achieves prominence in any field unless he has been trained in behavioral science at Tavistock or one of its subsidiaries.

...Today the Tavistock Institute operates a $6 Billion a year network of Foundations in the U.S., all of it funded by U.S. taxpayers' money. Ten major institutions are under its direct control, with 400 subsidiaries, and 3000 other study groups and think tanks which originate many types of programs to increase the control of the World Order over the American people. The Stanford Research Institute, adjoining the Hoover Institution, is a $150 million a year operation with 3300 employees. It carries on program surveillance for Bechtel, Kaiser, and 400 other companies, and extensive intelligence operations for the CIA. It is the largest institution on the West Coast promoting mind control and the behavioral sciences.
We are so surrounded by social engineering that we don't even see it. We just run along through it, inside it. We live it.

John B. Watson (1907a) portrayed the rat's maze performance
as a chain of discrete responses
controlled by kinesthetic feedback
which become increasingly integrated
as training continues.



Think about the way the Gulf disaster has been managed. Hopes repeatedly raised and dashed, hopes for a solution continually kicked another mile down the road.

Think about war with Iran, how often we have it waved in our faces, the threat of this war that might come at any day but which has not arrived yet. 


Think about the economy, one day it's better, the next it's worse. The market goes up and down, never-ending, never resolving into stability. 


This is our life, this constant cycle of stress and relief. Stability never comes. 

That's the point.

^^^^^^^


The social engineers are detached. They are not *in* the experiment with us, they run the experiment. They view it as if from above, like demi-gods.
Today, the social engineering project operator group dynamics originates from a small circle of "social engineers", which is called the International Network of Social Network Analysis (INSNA, International Network of social network analysis).  The INSNA part of the tradition of "social scientists" who preceded him, remain in the service of international finance. Some of its members also belong to organizations like the repulsive Olin Foundation and the Irwin Foundation. And INSNA boasts in its ranks four knights of the royal orders, such as the Order of Orange Nassau, which was headed until 2004 by a former Nazi party member, Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands Netherlands, before it does not return to hell. (source)

"Social structure becomes actually visible in an anthill; the movements and contacts one sees are not random but patterned. We should also be able to see structure in the life of an American community if we had a sufficiently remote vantage point, a point from which persons would appear to be small moving dots. . . . We should see that these dots do not randomly approach one another, that some are usually together, some meet often, some never. . . . If one could get far enough away from it human life would become pure pattern." ~ Roger Brown, from INSNA website (www.insna.org)




fractal from Jock Cooper -- click through for gorgeous fractals
  
But they are not gods. And they are not God. They lack creativity. 

And life is not a pattern, a fractal, for their amusement.

They work against our freedom because they are parasites. They need to control people and steal because they have a parasitical lifestyle, and they don't want to work for their supper, they just want it for free. So they run the world like a farm, and they fancy themselves the farmers. 

It's time for them to pony up and buy the farm.

 

53 comments:

Peter said...

Hi AP!
This topic is hideously fascinating. Kudos to you for tackling it.
Psychopaths generally undergo a selection process for "admission" into the ruling cadres.
the following is a quote from Helga Zepp LaRouche's 1984 book titled THE HITLER BOOK.
***Individuals with stable personalities,with a sense of self-worth,and with firm convictions were not sought,but rather,quite explicitly,individuals with weak egos. Such individuals were easily manipulated by an emotional "hot and cold bath" of hostile attack and friendly, motherly warmth until, in total uncertainty, they gave themselves over completely to the group, which could control them with the promise of protection and security.***
This is how these social engineers are vetted. A priest class of pederasts. Selected by their abiliy to be controlled.

A. Peasant said...

hi Peter,

thank you. that is very interesting. have you ever read Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology? you might like it -- he goes into the way the system sorts out. it turns out that the 6% of "pure" psychopaths -- the more intelligent portion of them anyway -- do sort of attract a following made up of people with tendencies toward authoritarianism, and together they create a pathocracy which steadily deteriorates. these personality traits become the primary filter for getting a "good" job. therefore they have to compromise on intellectual ability, because it's more important that they obey than think, and eventually the whole shebang is run by morons until it falls apart. kinda like now... ; D

A. Peasant said...

the people of whom it is said: everything they touch turns to shit. at this point it looks like they have touched the whole wide world.

Anon said...

Scary. Tavistock has links to the London bus bomb of 7/7.

- Aangirfan

Dublin Mick said...

The Tavostockians now have classified wanting to eat healthy as a mental illness in Britain the empire where the lies never stop. It is called orthorexia nervosa. So eat your soylent green.

http://www.naturalnews.com/029098_orthorexia_mental_disorder.html

Makow is displaying a letter from a Satanist who says there is no escape.

http://www.henrymakow.com/zionism_freemasonry.html

Disclaimer: This does not mean I am on board with everything makow says or endorsing him in any way. It simply means his letter is of interest.

bholanath said...

I watched the Vaknin video a couple months back. As creepy as it gets, even freaked out the film-maker.
Agree the fecal-touch has covered our world, but it's been apparent since I was a kid. Denial is a wonderful thing - for some, for all the ponerized. I always wonder, if the paths are 6%, what's the figure for 'awakened'?

Speaking of paths, as I noted earlier, this Feinberg POS is a real, well, POS.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/211451-Who-is-Kenneth-Feinberg-

A. Peasant said...

great links and info everyone.

bho that's a good question and one i have thought a lot about. there's a couple of links here about it:

http://twelfthbough.blogspot.com/2009/03/retribalizing-and-remnant.html

especially the Pareto principle -- critical number in US is 9 million people to swing the whole thing over to us.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogmar09/survival4-03-09.html

??

james said...

Very well put together, AP.
90% of psychopaths are male. Therefore the incidence in the make population is like 10%, one in ten.

And given that they are more likely to be attracted to positions that offer power; military, police, law, politics, medicine, and religion, the figure for males in these professions could easily be one in five.

And given, again, these psychopaths have an unfair advantage over others in these power structures having no conscience and having the ability to recognise each other, they are far more likely to rise to the top. So the higher up you go in almost any bureaucracy, the higher the incidence of psychopaths. Till we get to nine in ten?

Dublin Mick said...
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Dublin Mick said...
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Dublin Mick said...
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Anonymous said...

> Six percent translates to approximately one in seventeen twenty-five people.

I picked up some time ago while reading US military literature (sorry, don't remember source) that tests they had done showed that the maximum number of soldiers which an officer could command effectively was 17 (actually, 100/17 gives about 5,8). The US military has a unit ("platoon") which is composed of 14 soldiers under the command of one officer.

I've wondered since discovering this if this is just a coincidence or there is a connection.

A. Peasant said...

hi dubs, good links -- that first one (higgins) looks like an excellent blog. i will try to get through them all but we have company so slow going...

anon, i would expect that is *not* a coincidence but i don't have anything for a link.

as James pointed out in his comment, people self-select for certain jobs. i suspect that a few exclusive (ie: "elite") military units may be specifically organized around psychological profiles that have confirmed every member is naturally conscience-free (as opposed to being trained into it). in other words it's part of the criteria to think a certain way reliably or the unit cannot function as intended (ie: commit atrocities and other forms of state-sponsored violence for purposes of social cleansing and creating an environment of terrorism to facilitate control over the population). it would be dangerous for a unit so tasked to have a "normal" person involved who might have a pang of conscience at the worst possible moment.

as for sizing units in general -- i don't know, but i would expect that every single element of military organization has a reason behind it that is backed up by research on mind-control.

the Silverfish said...

I have known people such as these, many."sigh"

Dublin Mick said...

http://www.theamericansheeple.com/specialpublication.html

bholanath said...

Regarding the Lahore, Pak. Sufi shrine attack:

"Despite intense opposition from the military establishment, a few days before the shrine attack over 50 foreign nationals, including officials of a private American defense contracting firm, arrived in Pakistan - even though they did not have security clearance from Pakistani intelligence agencies."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/LG03Df04.html

The said Sufis practice (horror of horrors!) "music, poetry, and dancing". Well, do we get the picture yet?!

Dave said...

Check out this John Lash article called "Open Season for Predators"


Predators article at Metahistory.org

Dave

Dublin Mick said...

I meant to take the glp site out they put spy ware on your computer.

Dublin Mick said...
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ravenise said...

This leaked military document is a must read to understand and counter militaristic tactics being perpetrated upon innocent civilians on our soil. The tactics used by US special forces abroad, as layed out in this booklet, are the same tactics that were practiced here in Canada during the G20.


Wikileaks:

"US Special Forces Foreign Internal Defense Operations, FM 3-05.202, Feb 2007

FM 3-05.202: Special Forces Foreign Internal Defense Operations is the 110 page manual for US Special Forces support, including undeclared support, of foreign governments against internal revolt or insurgency, such as in El Salvador, Colombia, Somalia and the post occupation governments of Iraq and Afghanistan. The manual was made US military doctrine (policy) in February 2007. It supersedes the 1994/2004 version FM 31-20-3: Foreign Internal Defense Tactics Techniques and Procedures for Special Forces, which Wikileaks described as follows:

The document, which is official US Special Forces policy, directly advocates training paramilitaries, pervasive surveillance, censorship, press control, restrictions on labor unions & political parties, suspending habeas corpus, warrantless searches, detainment without charge, bribery, employing terrorists, false flag operations, concealing human rights abuses from journalists, and extensive use of "psychological operations" (propaganda) to make these and other "population & resource control" measures palatable."


Document freely accessible here: http://bit.ly/aUgVij

Here is some information on HAARP, and modern day mind control. Very important to understand the technologies that we will see used increasingly in the future.

Coast to Coast am - April 06 2010 - HAARP, Mind Effects, & ESP

Date: 04-06-10
Host: George Noory
Guests: Nick Begich

Appearing for the full (2.6) hour show, lecturer on new technologies, health and earth science-related issues, Dr. Nick Begich, discussed the latest updates on HAARP technology, as well as the rapid advances in mind effects and enhancing ESP potentials.

One of the capabilities of HAARP is to use electromagnetic fields to create a "frequency following response" where the human brain locks on to specific signals and begins to mirror them. Such a signal could potentially create specific emotions or manipulate behavior, he cautioned.

DARPA is experimenting with electronic telepathy, and learning to read the minds of adversaries. One such method seeks to analyze emanations coming off a person's skull. At one time, independent scientists ran a very successful telepathy experiment with test subjects in different rooms, who had apparatuses attached to their heads; but their work ended up being shut down, he detailed.

Website(s):
# earthpulse.com

Video(s):
# Technologies in the 21st Century
# Mind Control

Book(s):
# Angels Don't Play This H.A.A.R.P.
# Controlling the Human Mind
# Earth Rising II: The Betrayal of Science, Society and the Soul

I have uploaded this fascinating

Radio show here:

http://drop.io/haarp2012

Here is another document termed "The mind has no firewall." This is a military study which is very revealing about how the military, and intelligence agencies are using technology, and ESP to gather intelligence.

http://bit.ly/9vWkND

james said...

Hey Dave! I read the article at the link you gave.
There is no logical construction to his premises. This would be ok if he gave references to external logical arguments or historical facts and analysis, but there are none save for one (Reich) which is to do with psychology.

The author makes the following statement-
"Contra-violence is the use of violence by people opposed to violence who, nevertheless, regard a non-violent response as inadequate in certain situations. The term "contra-violence" signifies action taken against violence, equivalent to it in strength and effectiveness, not passive non-violent resistance."

His 'contra-violence' is really renaming 'righteous violence'. Righteous violence is promoted by governments when they want to perpetrate wars on other nations and against their own citizens when they want to stock their privately run prisons for profit through internal wars such as "the War on Drugs".
Righteous violence is presented as the solution to all our problems by hollywood; from Dirty Harry to Terminator 22.
So violence perpetrated by 'authorities' is good/righteous/contra and violence perpetrated by anyone else is bad.
Righteous violence is also responsible for the bulk of our problems with violence in our society and it deliberately promoted for that reason.

Defending yourself physically is not violence unless you go one step beyond what's necessary. Becoming a 'predator' as the author proposes goes beyond defence and into violence.

He also makes this statement-
"
David Icke, (is) propounding a scenario that makes the surro-predators look superhuman by comparison to us mere mortals. Icke and others who elaborate on the Illuminati conspiracy and the associated "reptilian agenda" of the New World Order, would have us believe that the globalist masterminds are occult adepts who control the world through secret techniques derived from the Mysteries.
"


There's a very simple reason Icke does that. It's because he is a gatekeeper for the NWO types and it is no secret or shouldn't be for someone as widely read as the author, Lash. Yet he doesn't even allude to it.

Lash (is that his real name?) goes on to make the old argument that, like there being good violence and bad violence, there is good magic and bad magic.
Fact of the matter is (and I've seen these so-called black magicians up close) is that there is no magic, black, white or otherwise. If there was we'd be all good and dead long ago or if white magic is effective we'd all be living in lotus land. Take your pick.

There'd be no need for all this mad scramble for nuclear, surveillance and other technology and no need for torture for mind control.

The CIA's expertise does not track back to any Mystery Schools but to the rather more mundane Roman Catholic Church and their documented systematic experiments that date back to the Inquisitions. They developed water boarding, for instance, and the deliberate creation and use of dissociated alters within the minds of their victims. No doubt they dressed it up to look like god-like control of the hapless victims but it was and is never-the-less the manipulation of inborn psychological processes.

There is also one unfortunate typo he made which I can't help myself from pointing out - he said when paying out on Icke and friends -
"No Shakti on board. No Gaia/Goddess connection at all, as far as this ass-licking Kalika can tell."

Yes, he meant "this ass-kicking Kalika

Very unfortunate as I said. Sorry John!

And if you want to know what kind of deity he is following and recommending, go here and read

Dublin Mick said...
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chuckyman said...

This was a post by HistorysBunkBunkBunk over at another blog

"Almost All Exxon Valdez Cleanup Crew Dead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRrbqBEGxiw&feature=player_embedded

Exxon V in the middle of nowhere, and most all the cleanup crew dead by 51 years of age . . . Gulf Oil Disaster has millions breathing in these poisons."

Dave said...

James - well said.
I would not recommend drinking from John Lash's
cup of spiritual "kool-aid" nor most of the others
on the net. Love thy neighbor as thyself - love and appreciate your "true" creator ( no demiurges please) and be on with your life !
I do believe his deconstruction and demystification of TPTB is pretty good in the article.
As you said, if these folks had a scintilla of the
"magic" they are attributed with we'd have all been toast long ago.
He no doubt suffers what many do - the desire to
strike back at TPTB - in his case using a shamanic magic kill.
There is a pretty good article about spiritual matters here. :)

Dave

james said...

Hi Dave,
Yes his description of TPTB is pretty good and that's the hook that's in play here. As is the desire for revenge in place of restitution.

But he offers the wrong solution by advocating the weapon of choice of the enemy (always a dumb move) - physical violence. He also seems blissfully unaware of the effect of exercising power over others on the 'perpetrators' minds. And it ain't enlightenment though, no doubt, many who succumb feel it to be so.

Thanks for the link, Dave. It reads pretty good, as you say. Kinda familiar, though, for some reason!

A. Peasant said...

hi all, just wanted to pop in my own blog and say hi, kind of busy with family vacation etc. but am keeping up as able (not so much) and will be back when i can...

james said...

Enjoy your well earned break, AP! Great post, again.

Mick, I wasn't exactly recommending that site but whatever parts your hair for you, mate!

Dave, further comment, I gotta agree with you on the 'love your neighbour'. 'cept mine, of course. But if you knew them, you'd understand!!

chuckyman said...

Sorry James. Why would you post a link and then dis it later??

Some of us illiterate recovering Catholics don’t understand all of the Eastern mysticism.

Dave said...

Chuckyman someone us submensa ex-Southern
Baptists don't understand "all of the Eastern mysticism" either ! Probably just as well.

Dave

james said...

Hi Chuck,
I can be a bit spare in my comments. So, apologies for that. I mean no disrespect to anyone here. I am a retired catholic, too. So I am very familiar with the journey outwards from that and I also got into Eastern Mysticism thinking that if the catholics were wrong, this Eastern crew might well be right. But I found the same spirit of power present. And that is exactly what I read in Lash's words, btw.

I went to some (though not great) length to pull apart John Lash's arguments in his article so I was definitely not endorsing his ideas. Then when I linked an article that described the 'deity' he is advocating following or emulating, I thought it would naturally follow that I was not endorsing that 'deity' either.

If you read the article on Kali/Kalika you'll see 'she' is contrary and blood thirsty. 'She' is, after all, the goddess of death. Some will reframe this as renewal. But death and destruction is death and destruction to me. There is no compassion in the goddess Kali/Kalika and so you could reasonably describe 'her ' as psychopathic, to link back to AP's post here. How do psychopaths get the way they are? Many, including me, believe it is by opting to follow the way of power and exploitation from a very early age.

Dave kindly linked to an article of mine where at the beginning of it, I explain my reasoning behind there being possible only one God and that God cannot be destructive and still be God. You might find it interesting to compare with Kali.
Here's the link again

Cheers

Dublin Mick said...

It is easier than we are making it out to be here. Mother nature both creates and destroys and this holds true in all the finite world. In order to live you must be willing to die. That holds true for man and the amoeba.

Dublin Mick said...

Here we go again posts not showing up here. Exactly why I opened a wordpress blog.

It is easier than we are making it out to be here. Mother nature both creates and destroys and this holds true in all the finite world. In order to live you must be willing to die. That holds true for man and the amoeba.

bholanath said...

Chill, people. Ever hear the line, "don't criticize what you don't understand"?
There might be some valid questions regarding Lash's work, but without a thorough study, the above comments are meaningless. Calling something "Kool-aid" might be cute, but shows serious lack of comprehension of the author's work and DIRECT EXPERIENCE, but then, how would you know?
The above limited descriptions of 'Kali' are nothing but the most superficial. Do you know of the supremely loving and compassionate Mother and Lover that is Kali? And who is no different from Mother Earth, Bhoomi Devi, Pachamama? Of course you don't.
Someone who has direct experience can easily recognize that Lash has done the necessary deep inner work to come to know an immense Reality, untouched and unknown even by the Hindu pandits and second-hand scribes and commentators.
Same goes for Lash's path through Gnostic/Sophianic studies and experience that brought him to the living pre-Vedic Mother-Earth-Goddess revelations.
Of course the one-god/one-way christian kool-aid is still coursing through the veins of billions, but it's way past time for a major detox. Unfortunately, it's now in progress, and will come in the absolute worst possible way, with the destruction of billions of lives. The seeds of the fatal 'error' of which Lash speaks were planted and nurtured by the monotheistic 'religions' ages ago, and we get to be here to witness the 'fruits'. Lucky us. Don't say you weren't warned.

Anonymous said...

Dave, James,

I've read Lash's book (Not in His Image), and had looked forward to when I'd finally get around to spending time on his website - I had high hopes. The whole throw-the-male-sky-god-in-the-bin idea seems powerful to me, and worth exploring. The essay you linked to, Dave, was thought-provoking enough. He puts too much stock in a flash-in-the-pan blockbuster (Avatar) for my liking, but even the whole righteous-violence idea seemed worth considering, if a little impractical and problematic (they're just daring us to get violent, it would seem). But then I look around a little, and he introduces 9/11 truth on his site by, yet again, using Avatar as an example, and it turns out, Lash is a no-planer! (See the "Avatar Magic" section, 2/3rds of the way down this page: http://www.metahistory.org/tantra/lunarshaktis/PT2010Reckoning.php )

What do people think of no-planers around here? I thought the idea had died a slow and agonising death on the webs. But I did think it was dead by now. It's a little disturbing to see someone bring it up as the way to spread 9/11 truth...

Peter D

Dublin Mick said...

This is really a lot easier than we are making it out to be. Mother nature both creates and destroys through all spectrums of the finite world. This holds true for man and the amoeba.

The misunderstandings can mostly be traced back to the conception of what the creator is. Many view God as a man in the sky with a white beard mostly in the west. The east has a more scientific view in that the creator is energy, the two forces of positive and negative that produce lightning in the sky and form a baby in the womb. Mother nature if you will.

The female is negative and the male positive, the two forces of creation. It is not about what you believe, it is about what you know.

james said...

Chill, people. Ever hear the line, "don't criticize what you don't understand"?

Hullo Bholanath, you say “Chill, people.” There was no problem here that I could detect. But you go on to say “Ever hear the line, "don't criticize what you don't understand"?” Excuse me? Now it seems you're the one who needs to chill. Speaking for myself, how could you possibly know what level of understanding I have or of the others commenting on this thread? This sounds far from courteous to me, at the least, and arrogance at the worst.

There might be some valid questions regarding Lash's work, but without a thorough study, the above comments are meaningless.

One does not need to read an author's complete body of work to comment on one article of his, surely. Are any of my comments meaningless to you? Please elaborate if you think they are.

Calling something "Kool-aid" might be cute, but shows serious lack of comprehension of the author's work and DIRECT EXPERIENCE, but then, how would you know?

The discussion so far has been limited to the author's article that was linked. The article should be able to stand on its own merits and I have briefly critiqued some of it. This is not a philosophical journal but a blog comment thread. Which 'DIRECT EXPERIENCE' cited in the article were you refering to? “How would I know?” We've covered that already. Is it discourtesy or arrogance?

The above limited descriptions of 'Kali' are nothing but the most superficial.

This is a blog comment thread as noted previously.

Do you know of the supremely loving and compassionate Mother and Lover that is Kali? And who is no different from Mother Earth, Bhoomi Devi, Pachamama? Of course you don't.

It would appear that you have not read my comments carefully. I refered to Kali being a contrary goddess and some seeing her as “renewal”. What I did say was correct though not a complete encyclopaedic exposition, I'll grant you. Again, is this discourtesy or arrogance?

Someone who has direct experience can easily recognize that Lash has done the necessary deep inner work to come to know an immense Reality, untouched and unknown even by the Hindu pandits and second-hand scribes and commentators.
Same goes for Lash's path through Gnostic/Sophianic studies and experience that brought him to the living pre-Vedic Mother-Earth-Goddess revelations.


Again you don't know what my direct experience is but I can tell you it covers some things that Lash admits he has no direct experience in. But then it would be most unusual to have two people with exactly overlaping experiences in anything. No?

Of course the one-god/one-way christian kool-aid is still coursing through the veins of billions, but it's way past time for a major detox.

No argument there. But if you read the comments again, you will see that no-one is advocating for christian or any other religions. Quite the opposite, in fact. I take it that you have no objection to the term 'kool-aid' being used in connection with religions?

Unfortunately, it's now in progress, and will come in the absolute worst possible way, with the destruction of billions of lives. The seeds of the fatal 'error' of which Lash speaks were planted and nurtured by the monotheistic 'religions' ages ago, and we get to be here to witness the 'fruits'. Lucky us. Don't say you weren't warned.

Yes, maybe so. But, just because one lot got reality wrong doesn't mean the alternative is necessarily right. Regardless, your above comments were not covered in Lash's article in question, as far as I can see.

james said...

Hi Peter D,
I'll answer at the risk of hogging the thread as you've addressed your question to me (as well as Dave).

Avatar is a work of fiction. It is valid to use a fictional story in an argument as an analogy for illustrative purposes. But it is invalid to use it as evidence or an argument in its own right because it is fiction and the story can be constructed regardless of consequences that would prevail in reality. And logic is the philosophic discipline employed to uncover reality. So you can see it is self defeating to use unreality to try and prove reality.

It is unclear to me in which sense Lash is trying to use Avatar in his article. Maybe both. But given that his article is a series of assertions without much in the way of logical connection, I don't think it matters.

Lash's views on 9/11 and 'planes/no planes' is off topic so I'm loathe to comment on it. I have commented on religions (and then answered questions on my comments) because they feed directly into the problem of the roots of psychopathy and social engineering which is the topic under discussion.

Penny said...

Hey AP!!!

I love the fractal, as for the social engineering it is everywhere, all around us, some don't see it, some thankfully do.

Just a minute to pop in today.
summertime and the weather is stifling, my health has been in the shitter as of late, and family worries got me on the run, any surprise, family worries and health in the shitter?

Anyway, haven't forgotten you, partner in crime, just have been unable to make the rounds

hey to everyone else.

One more thing, I love that fractal...
I think I need to find a new one?

Anonymous said...

Dublin Mick says -
"It is easier than we are making it out to be here. Mother nature both creates and destroys and this holds true in all the finite world. In order to live you must be willing to die. That holds true for man and the amoeba."

DM's posts aren't appearing....from Bho.

A. Peasant said...

hi all. no fighting, please. i'm not touching this discussion re: lash etc. kiss kiss hug hug to all. ; D

pen, hi. so sorry you don't feel well. if it's any comfort i also have the family troubles.... such is life. also i have not been making the rounds either due to the family vacation at our cottage & much company.

bho -- dubs comments come to my email but they don't show up. i don't know what is up with that. it's nothing on this end as far as i know. been an ongoing problem tho.

A. Peasant said...

btw pen, check out that link for fractals. i found one for my desktop. pretty cool and they look like paintings.

Dublin Mick said...

I am only fleetingly familiar with Lash but I can tell you do have an idea of one's depth of understanding labels the the monolithic religions of the east as koolaide.

The current paradigm of current Christain understanding is relatively simply and in my opinion superficial. It is something a five year old can fully understand in sunday school, love Jesus and you go to heaven and the rest of the heathen burn in the fire.

It tends to short circuit further attempts of discovery concerning the nature of the human and the creator and present a false sense of security and indeed was designed to do so by the "psychopaths." See council of Nicea.

But anyway enough of that if you wish to explore further.

I keep this handy for those convinced moving out of the box is koolaide sipping.

http://wwwcampfire.blogspot.com/2009/09/new-perspectives-on-old-subject_16.html

Anonymous said...

Hi James,
I had come to the conclusion that the psychopaths responsible for 9/11 also had a hand in fostering the "no-planes" disinformation campaign – and that it was ultimately a disinformation campaign. So it is potentially a practical example of psychopathy that we could look at, and may not be too far off-topic after all. (That’s the story I’ll be sticking to anyway...)

As far as cautiously confronting the public with the solid evidence pointing to 9/11 being a false flag attack goes, the no-planes thesis would fall into the "crack smoking lunatic" basket as far as the general population is concerned. So even if there were some truth to it, it's one of the last things to bring up if you expect to be taken seriously, I would have thought.

After reading his book, I felt that Lash was obviously better in touch with human history than most, and hoped to learn much more from him, so it was troubling to see him giving a fresh spin on the sordid old no-planes story. That said, I did actually enjoy reading the essay of his Dave posted.

Peter D

Dave said...

James many apologies for your tired hands.
Never saw the spiritual/religion angle coming - my bad.
I had read Lash's book " Not In His Image" last year and faded fast when he headed into the Gaia/Sophia/Living Earth belief.

Religions/beliefs seem to come with the obligatory middleman to get you to your destination- lost.
Seems like we always learn late in the story ( like Dorothy in Oz ) most of what we seek is closer than we imagined.

Imagine a Christ in the current time - confronting TPTB with powerful truth, exposing them, living "outside the box " they would like
us to live in, no TEEVEE, no life filled with piles of useless crap goods, sh(r)edding the religious corrupters of our souls.
Maybe there's a little christ in us already if will just seek it out - no heroics necessary.

Oh AP who wrote that quote at the start of your June 5 article ? ( LOL )

Dave

james said...

A number of comments have disappeared from the thread; 10 judging by the numbers.

Peter, yes, 911 and plane/no plane is an example of social engineering but to get into the debate of whether there were planes or not is to fall into the object of the social engineering rather than studying it as a subject. Which is what AP was on about.

But if you are using it to point out that Lash may be into social engineering, then you have a very good point, in my view, which is where I originally came in.
I was looking at Lash's article from the point of view that it is strange that he is advocating violence and arguing side issues about David Icke and not pointing out that Icke himself is a gatekeeper or disinfo agent. Meanwhile, he has planted the idea that violence is ok if you are on the side of the righteous (and who isn't!) and uses an ancient Hindu goddess (amongst other things) to justify it. I posted a link to a description of this goddess so people could have a good look at 'her' including her destructive nature and decide whether 'she' is for them or not.

So lets get back to social engineering. Why would people like Icke and others like Alex Jones put up all this good revelatory info if they are ultimately working for the other side?'It's called 'poisoning the well' and 'guilt by association'. hese are short explanations. The last link has some useful graphics and explanations of false logic. The first link doesn tdescribe exactly how "poisining the well' is used in internet and 'intelligence' scenarios but it is as close as I can find in the short time I have.

People are attracted to them because of the good info (which is never original and freely available elsewhere) and add in some damaging and false info. In Icke's case it is the "Reptilian Blood' bullshit. So when someone is making a case for wrong doing by TPTB, they point to the fact that Icke says that too and he goes also goes on about Reptilian Blood and is obviously 'off the planet'. The conclusion is then that you are off the planet too together with everything else Icke is supporting.

So Lash with his non-outing of Icke as a gatekeeper (which is fairly widely known), his dodgy logic, his incitement to violence and stuff that is off topic and distracting, mixed in with his other information which is valid and good, appears to fit the profile of a disinformation agent or gatekeeper. They make themselves out to be leaders in the field so they can act as 'pied pipers'. Or another analogy is they act as a 'Trogan Horse' inside the legitimate oppposition. Therefore they have to put up a lot of correct info, too. But as I said, the good stuff is never original. If it's original, it's bullshit.

They have time and money to run big websites and travel promoting themselves and appear to have no problem in getting published and promoted. Icke gets on the BBC regularly which should tell you all you need to know, for instance. We know that TPTB employ these gatekeepers. The question then is, "Who are they?"

So maybe Lash in in on the gig, too. And if he is then the 'noplanes' is an example of "poisoning the well" and an attempt to set up 'guilt through association' connections with other genuine truth seekers.

But whatever, his promotion of violence against TPTB is suicidal and exactly what the PTB want. It's their weapon of choice. They need an 'enemy' to justify their destructive wars and oppressive social restrictions. No? After all, they pay big money to organise and pay for their various terrorist organisations so they would love people to do it for them for free.

So I reckon I'm done stepping on corns for now and will be leaving any sacred cows alone in future!

Dublin Mick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
james said...

No worries, Dave. Can I go back to my chocolate and watching Eric Clapton, now?

"Religions/beliefs seem to come with the obligatory middleman to get you to your destination- lost.
Seems like we always learn late in the story ( like Dorothy in Oz ) most of what we seek is closer than we imagined."


Fucking perfect, mate!

A. Peasant said...

hi Dave, haha, yes i got that lash quote over at bho's place. but i don't know lash's work, i just cribbed the quote from bho because in regard to that particular concept, i agree.

i like your last comment also, and agree that it's a lot closer than we realize. in fact we are all inside God is how it came to me one day.

Imagine a Christ in the current time - confronting TPTB with powerful truth, exposing them, living "outside the box " they would like
us to live in, no TEEVEE, no life filled with piles of useless crap goods, sh(r)edding the religious corrupters of our souls.
Maybe there's a little christ in us already if will just seek it out - no heroics necessary.


that's so correct Dave. that's the way... you know, "the way."

Anonymous said...

I've taken Jesus as an example to live by in the past (so much so that I fancy myself as a better Christian than many who identify as Christians), but I'm so pissed-off with all things Jewish at the moment, even if there were abundant evidence that Jesus was a real historical individual, I'd be inclined to ignore it. But there isn't much of that kind of evidence. The passages in Josephus likely were forged, and that's all the "hard evidence" there is. In all liklihood, Christ started out as a myth, and the "historical" Jesus came along later with the encouragement of the church as it established itself.

See e.g. The Jesus Mysteries by Freke and Gandy, The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty.

Whatever the truth is, there are worse ways to come to know a religious figure than to begin by examining the evidence that they did indeed exist.


Peter D

nobody said...

Hey AP, that's enough swanning about on holiday mate. Time to come back and tie all that Belgian monkey business together for us. Whatever it was I said before about useless Belgian police etc. I no longer know what to think now. The 'catechism' at Pen's blew my mind. I still can't believe that the Catholic heirarchy fought the parents over it. Ordinarily I'd have said that that was impossible but there I was reading about it.

You and Aangirfan, bloody la-di-dah types having holidays! Do I get holidays? No, I just go mad like normal people. Anyway, ease my madness mate. Do that Belgium Boompsadaisy!

A. Peasant said...

ha nobs, if only i were 'swanning about...'. no rather it is more like running a small hotel. i'll be back to things just as soon as i can, i promise.

nobody said...

Ha, cue the Fawlty Towers reruns! Happily what with being American you get to be Polly. If I was there I'd kick arse as Basil. I can do the funny walks and everything.

A. Peasant said...

haha, exactly right!

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