it gets old - updated

UPDATE: Division of holy site ordered

Mr Prasad says a third will go to Muslims, he said, a second part would become a temple for Hindus who claim the spot as the birthplace of their god Lord Ram, while another third would go to a Ayodhya-based Hindu religious organisation.

Mr Prasad says the court has upheld the Hindus' contention that the site was the birthplace of Ram.

I see. So that's ONE third to the Muslims and TWO thirds to the Hindus -- the distinction between the "temple for Hindus" and the "Ayodhya-based Hindu religious organization" being lost on me.

Imagine my shock. So instead of dividing it into TWO EQUAL HALVES, a fake distinction is made to create THIRDS, thus allowing the Hindus to have more.


As you've no doubt heard, a "Mumbai-style" massacre across Europe has been foiled.

Mumbai was at the centre of a terror siege in November 2008 when gunmen launched ten simultaneous attacks at popular landmarks including the Taj hotel, cafes, a train terminal and a Jewish centre. It was carried out by nine terrorists from the Pakistan-based Islamist group Lashkar-e-Taiba which has committed previous attacks in India. The revelations could be linked to yesterday’s evacuation of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. It is feared an al Qaeda linked group may have been planning an attack on the West from a lawless tribal area of Pakistan.
For other possible explanations, please see aangirfan, who notes that "The CIA is keen to paint Pakistan as a source of terrorism."

These planned commando attacks have been foiled by the authorities. "Intelligence sources said the plot was in the ‘advanced but not in the imminent stages’ and the plotters had been tracked by spy agencies for some time." Hmm. No doubt. (Daily Mail) 


We would just call your attention to a possible hotspot in India tomorrow on the Ayodhya dispute. We covered this issue here and here, noting that sixty one trucks of explosives went missing in India a few months ago. The Ayodhya debate is very old, and it flared up around the same time as the "mosque at ground zero" debate. Synergy we guess.

The Ayodhya debate is a political, historical and socio-religious debate that was most prevalent in the 1990s in India. The main issues revolve around access to the birthplace of the Hindu God Rama, the history and location of the Babri Mosque at the site, and whether a previous Hindu temple was demolished or modified to create the mosque. (wikipedia)...The destruction of the mosque sparked terrible violence between Hindus and Muslims in India. Over 2000 people died. Ten years later the Gujarat riots followed the Godhra train attack, a train carrying Hindu activists from Ayodhya....The man in charge in Gujarat is Narendra Modi, Chief Minister. He assumed office on October 7, 2001.

Many people consider the Gujarat riots a genocide overseen by Modi. The Ayodhya dispute is between Hindus and Muslims.

Tomorrow a verdict is supposed to come out on the dispute. Security has been beefed up across the country.

Ayodhya verdict tomorrow, security beefed up across the country

LUCKNOW: The Allahabad High Court will deliver its verdict on the 60-year-old Ramjanambhoomi-Babri Masjid title suit on Thursday and bracing for it the government has beefed up security and warned that any attempt to breach peace will be dealt with firmly.
The narrative hook of the Ayodhda dispute is the accusation: that Muslims habitually build their mosques on top of other people's sacred places. 
In January 2001, Daniel Pipes (Zionist neocon) wrote about the similarities between the Temple Mount and Ayodhya, in which he argues that Muslims are habitual offenders for this sort of thing. (http://www.danielpipes.org/368/the-temple-mounts-indian-counterpart)

As Israeli intelligence services raise alarms about the prospect of radical Jewish groups attacking the mosques atop the Temple Mount, an eerily similar controversy is simultaneously developing in India, with possible lessons and implications for Israel. According to legend, the god-king, Lord Ram, one of Hinduism's principal deities, was born in Ayodhya, about 540 km southeast of New Delhi. The Moslem conquerors of India destroyed the temple commemorating his birthplace centuries ago and built a mosque, known as the Babri Masjid, on the ruins.

...Ayodhya prompts several thoughts relating to the Temple Mount.
  • It shows that the Temple Mount dispute is far from unique. Moslems have habitually asserted the supremacy of Islam through architecture, building on top of the monuments of other faiths (as in Jerusalem and Ayodhya) or appropriating them (e.g. the Ka'ba in Mecca and the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople)
  • This pattern still continues - as recently as October, when it happened at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.

Et cetera.

This is the narrative hook, the accusation: that Muslims habitually build their mosques on top of other people's sacred places. 

Notice that Pipes says "according to legend" the Hindu god was born at Ayodhya. The Babri Masjid (Mosque) was built in 1528. Hindus claimed 330 years later (1853) that Rama was born there.

But then, in 2009, a leaked government report caused a stir because it said that the destruction was "meticulously planned" and attributed to top Hindu leaders.

In India, a leaked government report which has blamed senior Hindu nationalist leaders for the demolition of an ancient mosque 17 years ago, has rocked parliament, and angered the opposition....The Indian Express newspaper says that the commission has concluded that the build-up to the events that culminated in the Hindu mob tearing down the mosque was "meticulously planned."
The newspaper says the Liberhan commission has slammed top leaders of the opposition Hindu Nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party for their role in the destruction of the mosque, which sparked some of the worst Hindu-Muslim clashes seen in the country. Those named include former Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee and current leader of the opposition, Lal Krishna Advani.


A name that comes up frequently in research on terrorism in India: Narendra Modi.

In December 2008, aangirfan wrote about Mumbai and the Hindu Fascists who appear to run India (condensed):

1. In 1992, in the town of Ayodhya in India, hundreds of Hindu 'terrorists' tore down a 500-year-old mosque. The authorities failed to act against the Hindu 'terrorists'.

2. In 1999, a Hindu mob surrounded the stationwagon occupied by Australian Graham Staines, and his two sons, 7 and 11 years old, and burned them alive.

3. In 2002, almost 2,500 Indian Muslim men, women and children were burned alive in the Hindu 'fascist' attacks in Gujarat.

4. 'Fascist' Hindus have attacked Christians, often with the help of the police and the Indian Army. More than 600 Christians, nuns and priests and 200 of their churches, were targeted by Hindu mobs in eastern India in August 2008.

5. Hemant Karkare, the head of the Maharastrian Anti-Terrorist Squad (MATS) announced in 2008 that terrorist bombings on trains and at Malegaon Muslim cemetery had been carried out as false flag attacks by 'fascist' Hindus with the support of officers in the Indian Army. Police rounded up ten alleged members of a Hindu terror cell....On the first day of the Mumbai Attack, Hemant Karkare was killed.

6. Lal Krishna Advani, former Deputy Prime Minister of India (2002-2004), former President of the nationalist BJP, and current Leader of the Opposition, met the heads of MOSSAD when he visited Israel in June 2000. Advani advocated "closer India-Israeli cooperation on all security matters". 

7. Narendra Modi, the chief minister of Gujarat, the Mumbai region, hopes his party, BJP, will increase its power throughout India. Modi is a fan of Israel. 

8. "India has recently allowed its new strategic relationship with the US and Israel to prevail over its traditional friendship with Iran," says Achin Vanaik, professor of international relations and global politics at Delhi University.

9. Control of the drug trade is also involved.

10. Yoginder Sikand at CrossCurrent observes:

"...the fact remains that it appears to be entirely in the interest of the Israeli establishment and powerful forces in America to create instability in India, fan Hindu-Muslim strife, even to the point of driving India and Pakistan to war with each other, and thereby drag India further into the deadly embrace of Zionists and American imperialists.

Ben Gurion wrote about his thoughts regarding Pakistan in the Jewish Chronicle, 1967:
"The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it.
"And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence..."It is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan."

We hope nothing bad happens in India tomorrow,
harming more innocent people.
We are very tired of state-sponsored false-flag terrorism,
any place and at any time.
Aren't you?


chuckyman said...

I’ll keep my fingers and toes crossed A.P. With all the negative attention India has received in the run up to the Commonstealth Athletic Games a false flag event would certainly garner the Indian administration some much needed sympathy. As Silverfish says...kick over any rock and guess who you find.

A. Peasant said...

yeah, let's hope nothing goes down. that was a pretty big stink over their bridge falling down and the dogs sleeping in the athlete beds, etc. good point on the victim angle. i was reading some of it earlier this week and hoo, that humiliation was not planned no way. plus there is also the terrorism and sports angle...

you know it's just ridiculous how many chainsaws they juggle. i hope they take off their own arm the next time they try to pull some shit.

chuckyman said...

Agreed A.P. Their arrogance will see to it. Sooner or later they will step on their own wieners in a very public way.

Are you thinking along the lines of Munich mark 2? We all know (I hope) that was another staged op. I haven’t followed it as closely as maybe I should (its only sport after all) but many of the big names are not going from what I gathered. Echoes of Odigo could apply. I sincerely hope not but you make a strong case.

A. Peasant said...

it's possible. i was actually amazed that nothing happened during the olympics in S Africa.

Anonymous said...

Very good. And thanks for the link.

- Aangirfan.

Anonymous said...

Amazing how many people want to be good buds with Isreal huh?

bholanath said...

According to WSJ.com -
Nirmohi Akhara

One third of the site will go to the Nirmohi Akhara, a group of Hindu ascetics who are devotees of none other than Lord Ram. Their name means, roughly, “Group Without Attachment.” They have given up the material world for the company of their god. They are “sadhus” – or Hindu holy men often characterized by the hermetic tendencies. They claimed in court that there is no mosque called Babri Masjid at the site in Ayodhya, nor did the Mughal commander Babur make any conquest or any occupation of territory in India. They also claimed the site is of ancient antiquity and has existed before the living memory of man. Lord Ram and his court representatives receive another third of the site.

Ram Janmabhoomi

Literally, this phrase means “the land Ram was born on.” Hindu groups refer to the property in Ayodhya where the medieval Babri mosque stood, and that was at the heart of the 60 year dispute with this phrase. Ram is one of the most revered incarnations of one of the deities of a Hindu trinity—the god of preservation, Vishnu.

Sunni Waqfs Board

This is an elected legal body that oversees Sunni Islamic properties endowed for religious or charitable purposes. The plaintiff in the case that was decided Thursday was the Uttar Pradesh Sunni Central Board of Waqfs, which supervises these properties in the state where the town of Ayodhya is located. The board gets the third portion of the site.

Ram Lalla

This refers to Hindu idols placed in the central dome of the mosque, allegedly in 1949. The phrase specifically refers to Ram as a baby or a young child. Parts of the Hindu suits revolved around seeking access to these idols and having them remain there, while the Muslim plaintiffs wanted them removed.

A. Peasant said...

aan, you're welcome.
dubs, i agree, see next post.
bho, thank you for the details.

legal mumbo jumbo

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