the Loughner affair - UPDATED

Was Judge Roll the real target? This is an important question. The media has been obsessing over Gabby Giffords. In general, whatever they’re carrying on about is meant to distract us from the real story.

This will be a long post. Apologies in advance. We want to pull together some things in one place.

We must immediately give credit to one of our readers, Joe Danger, who linked to us in a thread at Daily Paul. And this thread is full of information from various contributors.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/154262 - Was the judge the REAL target?, by RonPaulinator, 1/13/11

Before we begin, we have to deal with the Sorcha Faal problem. The so-called Sorcha Faal quickly pubished a piece about Judge Roll being the real target. This gave us pause. Researchers must be very careful about sources. Using bad sources may immediately discredits one’s work. Therefore, if spooks want to steer informed people away from something important, all they need to do is have some of their bad sources float it, and the information becomes effectively tainted. This makes things extra tedious for those of us interested in finding the truth, which we suppose is also the point. So first we have to acknowledge that we know of course that Sorcha Faal is disinfo. That does not mean that we are not going to look into the possibility that Judge Roll was the real target of the shooting.

You can read more about how cointelpro works here: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=17901 - Sorcha Faal: Intelligence briefs or disinformation? How to tell the difference, posted by Alex at the Intelhub, written by Philip Brennan, 1/14/11

The writer identifies Sorcha Faal as one David Booth.

"This is what Sorcha Faal / David Booth does – he sets up straw man articles in order to discredit any real information we do get. Does not matter if all our sources that we actually do glean our intelligence from are sound. the Sorcha Faal Straw Man Article exists, and will be used by COINTELPRO to discredit whatever real intelligence we get."
By the way, we’ve seen that face before. We see that David Booth looks exactly like Dr. True Ott, who had many things to say about the flu psyop.

http://atrueott.wordpress.com/about/ - About A. True Ott, PhD

What does it mean indeed.

We had some pictures in here but we have removed them courtesy of Phillip Brennan, the author of the article about Sorcha Faal:

Apology from Philip Brennan.
I made a major mistake in my last article, “Intelligence Briefs or Disinformation? How to tell the difference“, and have misaligned a major member of the Patriot Movement. The Patriot I have misaligned is Dr True Ott, PhD. The photo that I used for David Booth turned out to be of Dr True Ott, and not who I said it was. Also, the photo attributed to the female persona of Sorcha Faal is of Dr True Ott’s daughter.
This has taught me a major lesson that I need to learn: Triple check my sources.
Apart from these two major mistakes, the information on “Sorcha Faal” is still sound, and the aforementioned article has been corrected at this site and at beforeitsnews.com. I would humbly ask those of you who have cross posted this article to refer back to the corrected version, and edit as necessary. Thank you.
Dr True Ott, PhD, has written for various publications including Rense.com, and maintains his own web site here.
Again, my apologies to Dr True Ott, PhD.
Philip Brennan.
We thank Zahir Ebrahim at project humanbeingsfirst for alerting us to the correction.

It makes one wonder. And it highlights the difficulty of trying to get to the bottom of things. No doubt the spooks are rolling on the floor laughing whenever these things happen. And they *will* happen. We do not recommend being deterred.

In any case, you may also be interested in what Dr. A. True Ott has to say about the Loughner affair. It's very, very interesting.

http://atrueott.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/the-death-cult-of-jared-loughner/ - The Death Cult of Jared Loughner, 1/15/11

And here is the piece we read by Sorcha Faal suggesting that Judge Roll was the primary target:

http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/top-us-federal-judge-assassinated-after-threat-to-obama-agenda/ - Top US federal judge assassinated after threat to Obama agenda, by Sorcha Faal at www.whatdoesitmean.com, 1/9/11

But we digress.

We will mostly stick to corporate news sources because we understand that for many people, these are the only sources that count. But we hope to show that there's a problem.


According to TIME magazine, several people at the scene said that Judge Roll was the first person shot.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2041461,00.html#ixzz1BFrhN5tE - The Tuscon Massacre: One Survivor's Account, by Michael A. Lindenberger, 1/9/11

Turns out this is the hardest damn thing to verify.

"The ensuing seconds were chaotic and almost impossible to reconstruct from memory. According to other people at the scene, federal district judge John Roll was the first person shot. But, says Villec, "I couldn't see it with my own eyes. There was just bedlam. Clearly, she was the target, but I am not sure who was shot first.""

REGRETTABLY, the ensuing seconds are "almost impossible to reconstruct from memory."

The journalist does not quote these other people at the scene, but sticks with Villec, who couldn't see it with his own eyes.


Greta Van Susteren of Fox News reported early on:
http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/latest-on-shooting-of-congresswoman-giffords-motivation-anti-semitic-and-she-was-the-target/# - Latest on shooting of Congresswoman Giffords...motivation: anti-Semitic and she was the target, by Greta Van Susteren, 1/9/11
"This is an internal memo obtained by Fox News put out by DHS compiling facts known so far about the case - new - shooter's mother worked for Pima board of supervisers and the suspected anti-Semitic motivation of the shooter.
Computer forensics is cleaning up the surveillance videos, and images from around the scene, and involved in the investigation - working together, was MCSO, DPS, Phoenix PD, ICE, and of course the FBI. It did just come in from the command post, that the federal judge was Not originally scheduled to attend the meeting, according to wife. She stated that he received a phone call about an hour before and was invited to attend. Wrong place - wrong time."
It was already unclear on the day of the shooting. It was unclear if the shooter SAID ANYTHING or WHO WAS SHOT FIRST.
“At a news conference, Dupnik said the shooter moved towards the crowd and began firing. It was unclear if he said anything or who was shot first, Dupnik said.”

So Loughner may have said something?

An early report from the Arizona Daily Star indicates that he did.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_88b4b436-1b53-11e0-8354-001cc4c002e0.html - Rep. Giffords shot, judge and 5 others killed at Tuscon event, by Arizona Daily Star, 1/8/11

"Giffords, 40, was talking to a couple in the store when a gunman rushed her, shouting as he fired his weapon. The gunman fired at people in line and got within 4 to 5 feet of the congresswoman, said Mark Kimble, a former Tucson newspaper executive who is now on her staff. The gunman fired at Giffords then ran out, continuing to shoot."

Let's recap that:

According to Mark Kimble, a former newspaper executive who works for Giffords, Loughner 1) rushed Giffords, 2) shouting as he fired his weapon, then 3) fired at Giffords, and 4) ran out continuing to shoot.

The same story also reports the account of Dr. Steven Rayle. In Rayle's account, Loughner didn't say a word and got two feet away. Also, there was no warning of the shot.

"Rayle said he was walking toward her, about 8 to 10 feet away, when he saw a man about 2 feet away from her side shoot her in the head. There was no warning of the shot, he said. The man didn't say a word."
These two people seem to have witnessed two different things.


Why did Judge Roll die from his injuries at the scene and Giffords survive? What sort of ammunition would allow someone to survive a bullet through the head?

A very brief foray into a few ammunition threads informs me that FMJ ammunition tends to go through things without necessarily doing a lot of damage, as opposed to expanding (hollow point) ammunition, which expands and causes more damage.

We have read that Loughner purchased his ammunition at Walmart in the hours before the shooting. Walmart may sell both types of ammunition, so we don’t know what he purchased. Some people have speculated that he purchased the cheaper FMJ ammunition, which makes sense since Gabby Giffords has miraculously survived her head wound. The bullet passed through without doing too much damage.

But what type of ammunition hit Judge Roll, causing him to die at the scene? Five people died at the scene. Christina Green died at the hospital.

According to one witness, Steven Rayle again, it took upwards of twenty minutes for help to arrive.

http://gawker.com/5728501/ - Arizona Congresswoman shot outside grocery story, by Adrien Chen, 1/8/11

"We spoke to an eyewitness, Steven Rayle, who was on the scene at the time of the shooting and helped to hold the suspect down while waiting for police. Here's what he said:
The event was very informal: Giffords had set up a table outside the Safeway and about 20-30 people were gathered to talk to her. The gunman, who may have come from inside the Safeway, walked up and shot Giffords in the head first, "point blank". According to Rayle, who is a former ER doctor, Giffords was able to move her hands after being shot.
After shooting Giffords, the gunman opened fire indiscriminately for a few seconds, firing 20-30 rounds and hitting a number of people, including a kid no older than 10 years old. Rayle hid behind a concrete pole and pretended to be dead. When the gunman apparently ran out of ammunition he attempted to flee, but a member of Giffords' staff tackled him. Rayle helped hold the gunman down while waiting for the sheriff to arrive, about 15-to-20 minutes later. The EMS came about 30 minutes later. Rayle said he was "stunned" by how long it took medical help to arrive."
Here’s a video of George Stephanopolous interviewing Dr. Steven Rayle and another witness, Ken Penner.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/business-15749628/eyewitness-accounts-of-arizona-shooting-23788596 - Eyewitness accounts of Arizona shooting, ABC News, 1/9/11

Did Loughner open fire indiscriminately? We note specifically that Penner says there were holes through the glass windows at the Safeway. We also note that Rayle makes some statements about Giffords’ wound (around minute 3:00). He says that staffers were holding a coat to her face. She was conscious. He also says he saw the entrance wound but not the exit wound. And it sounds like he says he saw the entrance wound on her forehead.

And yet, according to CNN:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 - Police 'actively pursuing' second person in Tuscon shooting, by CNN Wire Staff, 1/9/11

"An employee of a nearby business, Jason Pekau, said he heard 15 to 20 shots. Two people tackled the gunman, who still had ammunition remaining, Dupnik said."
Those SURVEILLANCE VIDEOS would really be helpful.

We think it’s pretty amazing that Loughner managed to kill six and wound twelve (or thirteen) (that’s 18 or 19 rounds), and still have ammunition left over. Sounds like he made every shot count. Which bullets made holes in the windows at Safeway, as noted by witness Ken Penner? The indiscriminate ones? Which shots were indiscriminate if he managed to hit people with nearly every single shot? Dupnik says he had ammunition remaining.

WHEN did Loughner become such a sharpshooter?

“Army says it has no record of an enlistment contract with man suspected of shooting Rep. Giffords and others in Arizona.” http://twitter.com/starsandstripes/status/23885416570552320
There's no record. That means it never happened (wink).

A commenter at the Daily Paul was watching teevee as the events unfolded:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/154262 - Was the judge the REAL target?, by RonPaulinator, 1/13/11

"There was an interview (which I haven't seen again) with a witness, who talked about how skillfully this guy began shooting and moving. The guy being interviewed gave the impression that the shooter had much practice. He was supposedly very methodical, and collected in his attack.......Did Loughner have some training we don’t know about, or could there have been another shooter with different ammunition, perhaps hollow point ammunition, that would be sure to kill Judge Roll at the scene?"
We would like to see that witness interview too, but surely it has been scrubbed from the net.

Then again, "methodical and collected" doesn't square with Loughner running up, CRYING AND SHOOTING, as described by witness Mark Kimball.

We find it curious that some witnesses, like Steven Rayle, get a lot of media air time, while other witnesses are not heard from at all.


Reportedly Loughner purchased the Glock pistol on November 30, 2010. He did not have a job, and he complained bitterly about that in a video that has since been made available.

So where did Loughner get the money to purchase a gun?

Gun control advocates have naturally used the turn of events to demand more legislation.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html#ixzz1BE6DIsHH - Carolyn McCarthy readies gun control bill, by Shira Toeplitz, 1/9/11

"One of the fiercest gun control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson, Ariz., Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday targeting the high-capacity ammunition clip the gunman used. …Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) said he’s preparing to introduce a similar bill in the Senate. …McCarthy said she plans to confer with House Speaker John Boehner and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi to see “if we can work something through” in the coming week.
…In 2008 President George W. Bush signed a law expanding the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which registered gun dealers use, to include more comprehensive reporting of mental health records. Under the current law, it is illegal for anyone who has been “adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution” to purchase a firearm, according to the FBI’s website.
However, Loughner did not fall into either of those categories, according to Josh Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. “I’ve seen no evidence that he falls into those categories. It’s the same thing as this guy at Virginia Tech,” said Horwitz. “We can do a much better job checking people’s mental health background.”"

Great. We can only imagine how they would go about doing a better job.

Meanwhile, it does not look like anyone is being held accountable for letting Loughner slip through the cracks.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/jared-loughners-behavior-never.html - Jared Loughner's behavior never reported to mental health authorites: official, by Brigid Schulte, 1/10/11

"State law defines that as someone who appears to be mentally ill, but who may not know it."Our crisis line is manned 24/7," Cash said. "Anyone concerned about his behavior could have called at any time. I have no information to indicate that anyone ever did.""

Maybe the Sheriff or some other law enforcement people who knew about his half dozen or so encounters with authorities should be held accountable?

He was known to the authorities due to a series of outbursts that required intervention.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/12/20110112gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-pima-county-wont-release-jared-loughner-records.html - Arizona Shooting: Pima County Sheriff's Department, college won't release data on suspect, by Robert Anglen, 1/12/11

When the authorities finally released their information, Fox News said the “reports do not appear to indicate a violent history. Instead, they reflect a man seemingly prone to destructive tendencies.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/pima-county-sheriffs-department-releases-loughner-records/ - Police release documents detailing contact with Arizona gunman prior to deadly rampage, by Fox News, 1/12/11

So he was just some poor self-destructive misunderstood young guy binge drinking vodka, smoking pot and running red lights?

We are perplexed at how understanding the authorities can be at times, when at other times they taser people to death for the slightest infractions.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/southwest/view/20110113documents_detail_jared_loughners_college_outbursts/ - Documents detail Jared Loughner's college outbursts, by Associated Press, 1/13/11 

"Loughner’s on-campus behavior grew increasingly erratic, menacing, even delusional. Fifty-one pages of police reports released Wednesday provided a chilling portrait of Loughner’s last school year, which ended in September when he was judged mentally unhinged and suspended by Pima Community College."
Fifty one pages of police reports.


Moving right along. When will we hear about the ballistics tests on the weapon that killed Judge Roll and the others? And why do we not hear about Judge Roll’s wounds?

And was Judge Roll planning on being at the event or not?

Sheriff Dupnik said that Judge Roll made a spontaneous decision to stop at the event.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_0e6ad2ce-1b8e-11e0-ab28-001cc4c002e0.html - Dupnik: Gunman made previous 'threats of death' but not against Giffords, by Arizona Daily Star, 1/8/11
"Federal Judge John Roll went to Mass, as he did every Saturday, and on his way home decided to stop and say ‘hi’ to Giffords, his friend, Dupnik said." 

How could Dupnik know that Judge Roll decided to stop and say 'hi' to Giffords on his way home from mass? Is he a mind-reader? Did Judge Roll call Dupnik on his cell phone and tell him he just then decided to stop at the Giffords event? Dupnik was not at the event when the shooting took place, and Judge Roll was dead by the time Dupnik arrived, so we don't see how Dupnik could know this.

Dupnik also said Loughner was "a subject of, “some police interest in the recent past,” and he has made death threats in the past, but not toward Giffords." That's interesting. WHO did Loughner make death threats against in the past?

And Dupnik further told reporters that Loughner may have planned to shoot himself. Again, we have to ask, HOW DOES DUPNIK PRESUME TO KNOW THESE THINGS?

We find Sheriff Dupnik's behavior peculiar.


According to reports, two people tackled Loughner. Those two people are Joe Zamudio, 24, and Bill Badger, 74, a retired Army colonel.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/11/2011-01-11_if_they_hadnt_grabbed_him__i_would_have_shot_him.html?r=news - 'I would have shot him': Joe Zamudio, other heroes recall stopping Arizona killer Jared Lee Loughner, by Matthew Lysiak and Corky Siemaszko, 1/11/11
""I was at the store buying cigarettes," Zamudio said. "I was at the counter when I heard the gun shots. I put my hand on my gun and ran out." Zamudio said another man - identified as 74-year-old Bill Badger - had already knocked Loughner to the ground. Zamudio said Loughner had already emptied his clip, so he "jumped on top of him.""

The clip was empty say the witnesses at the scene. The pistol still had ammunition says Dupnik, who arrived later. Which one is the truth?

“The suspect still had ammunition in his weapon when he was tackled, Dupnik said. Law enforcement officials had previous contact with the suspect and he had made threats, the sheriff said.”

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/10/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona - 'Vitriol' cited as possible factor in Arizona tragedy, by Liz Halloran, 1/8/11

Items found on Loughner included a 4” buck knife, cash in a plastic bag, two 15-round gun magazines, a Visa card, and his Arizona driver’s license .

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Deputies-found-knife-gun-clips-in-Loughners-pockets-113625129.html - Deputies found knife, gun clips in Loughner's pockets, by Jennifer Thomas, 1/14/11 

This news source also lists the killed and injured: 19 total:
  1. Judge John McCarthy Roll, 63 - killed
  2. Gabe Zimmerman, 30 - killed
  3. Phyllis Schneck, 79 - killed
  4. Dorwin Stoddard, 76 - killed
  5. Dorothy Morris, 76 - killed
  6. Christina Taylor Green, 9 - killed
  7. Susan Hileman, 58
  8. Mavanell Stoddard, 75
  9. Pamela Simon, 63
  10. Ronald Barber, 65
  11. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, 40
  12. James Tucker, 58
  13. Kenneth Veeder, 75
  14. George Morris, 76
  15. James Fuller, 63
  16. Randy Gardner, 60
  17. Mary Reed, 52
  18. Kenneth Dorushka, 63
  19. Bill Badger, 74

Interesting demographics. We guess we were expecting a younger crowd, maybe some immigrants? But no. The victims are overwhelmingly older white people.


Was Judge Roll shot first? Where was he shot?

We have read hearsay reports that Judge Roll may have been shot in the face, and Giffords was shot in the back of the head.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/us/14legal.html?_r=2 - A president, a speech, and a point of law, by John Schwartz, 1/13/11

"In the speech, Mr. Obama said that one of the people killed on Saturday, John M. Roll, the chief federal judge in Arizona, “was on his way back from attending Mass, as he did every day, when he decided to stop by and say ‘Hi’ to his representative” — a characterization that suggested he was a bystander when the shooting began.
But the criminal complaint against Mr. Loughner says Judge Roll “was engaged in performance of official duties,” a critical element of the 1971 law that designated the killing of federal employees as a federal crime."
Obama parrots back the same line that Dupnik gave. But as we just pointed out, we don't see how Dupnik could know Judge Roll's inner thought process on his way home from mass.

According to the Telegraph UK, Judge Roll was there on official business: to talk about immigration.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/us-politics/8260586/Arizona-shooting-immigration-row-thrust-into-spotlight.html - Arizona shooting: Immigration row thrust into spotlight, by Jon Swaine, 1/14/11
 "Judge Roll, 63, attended Gabrielle Giffords's meet-the-voters event, where he died last Saturday, to discuss the unbearable load of migrant cases his colleagues faced, prosecutors have said. His funeral was held on Friday. But Judge Roll complained that the "inexhaustible number" of new officers and prosecutors in the area, empowered by the new law, had not been matched with extra judges.
He warned a senior regional judge in November that colleagues, who already had more work than judges in 87 of the 94 districts across the US, were facing "a tsunami" of cases.
He said their workload had doubled in two years and requested that a "judicial emergency", which would allow them to delay cases, be declared in Arizona.
Yet this has not been done and Mr Obama's White House, which appoints federal judges, has indicated it has no plans to create new positions in Arizona to deal with the problem.
It failed to put forward names for two existing judicial vacancies in the state earlier this month, when it announced a string of nominees for other positions. It declined to comment yesterday."

If Judge Roll was at the event on official business, the crime becomes a federal offense.

From the complaint:

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/justice/statement-of-probable-cause-filed-in-phoenix-against-loughner-01092011 - Statement of Probable Cause filed in Phoenix, Fox News, 1/9/11
"The United States District Court for the District of Arizona, had worked with Congresswoman Giffords within the last several months to resolve issues related to the volume of cases file din the District of Arizona. Judge Roll was notified about Congresswoman Giffords' event telephonically on or about January 7, 2011. Having spoken to Pia Carusone, the Chief of Staff for Congresswoman Giffords in Washington D.C., U.S. Marshal Gonzales reports that Ron Barber, a staff person for Congresswoman Giffords who was present at the event, stated that Judge Roll attended the event and sought to speak to Congresswoman Giffords, and spoke with Mr. Barber about issues related to the volume of federal cases in the District of Arizona; Judge Roll expressed his appreciation to Mr. Barber for the help and support that Congresswoman Giffords had given. Your affiant reviewed a digital surveillance video depicting the events at the Safeway; in the video, Judge Roll is seen speaking for several minutes with Mr. Barber."

Then again, some people may want to smear Judge Roll's reputation, to somehow lessen the seriousness of what happened to him.

Meanwhile, Loughner will be represented by a famous attorney, Judy Clark. She has also represented Ted Kaczynski, Zacarias Moussaoui, Eric Rudolph, and Susan Smith.

Even though Loughner has no money, his father doesn't work, and his mother works for the city parks department. Amazing.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/10/judy-clarke-who-defended-the-unabomber-will-represent-jared/ - Judy Clark, who defended the Unabomber, will represent Jared Lee Loughner, by Steven Hoffer, 1/10/11


What about the social engineering aspect of this event? The people we hear most about are 1) Gabby Giffords, and 2) Christina Green. We heard only the minimum about Judge Roll for some reason. And now that Christina has been buried, we expect to hear every single detail of Gabby Giffords' recovery.

We noted that for the first several days, Susan Hileman was referred to in story after story simply as “the neighbor” who took Christina to the event. We thought that was odd.

Susan Hileman is a retired social worker. She graduated from Cornell’s College of Human Ecology.

According to a statement by Cornell, both Hilemans are alumni. Giffords also graduated from Cornell. Hileman maintains close ties to Cornell as chair and director of the Cornell Alumni Admissions Ambassador Network for the Cornell Club of Southern Arizona and as a member of the Human Ecology Alumni Association Board.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Jan11/Hileman.html - Second alumna wounded in Arizona shooting, by George Lowery, 1/10/11

Well so what?

http://www.cia-on-campus.org/social/behavior.html - CIA's Behavior Caper, by Patricia Greenfield, December 1977

According to the article, Allen Dulles, CIA director, asked Harold Wolff to set up the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology at Cornell Medical College, in order to research techniques of brainwashing, interrogation and indoctrination.

Social engineering.

Hileman was educated in and retained close ties with a premier social engineering university program. It would be EXCEEDINGLY NAÏVE to think that someone of her stature, with close ties to the university and its alumni, has no idea that Cornell has worked closely with the CIA on social engineering for fifty years, roughly the same time period that she has been associated with Cornell. Nonetheless, there is also no evidence that Hileman had any preknowledge about the events in Arizona. It’s just very odd that she would be involved so centrally in this event. It’s odd that she would be the one to bring Christina Green to the event.

Christina: born on 9/11, symbolic, innocent, good, hopeful, religious, sacrificed.

Rituals and vigils.

We would like to see people spend a lot less time watching vigils on teevee and spend a lot more time READING and THINKING about all the things wrong with this story.

For instance, we know that Giffords was shot in the head because the media never tires of telling us. WHERE ARE THE DIAGRAMS THAT THEY TYPICALLY PROVIDE? Why isn't Josh Levs on this with diagrams? Giffords was shot in the head, but the others were simply killed. 

This is typical. It's not just one story like this.

Details about Judge Roll being shot are surprisingly difficult to find.

If you find the stories, please put a link in the comments.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_db6ef3c9-6656-5c38-a81d-c549a21637dd.html - Judge Roll, girl, 3 retirees, aide slain in attack on congresswoman, by Rhonda Bodfield, 1/9/11

"Minutes later, mayhem broke out and Giffords was critically wounded by a shot to the head. Six people were killed, including federal judge John Roll, who had recently worked with Giffords on court issues. A total of 13 people were injured."
Giffords shot in the head, the rest simply killed.

We also note again, same link, the statements of witness Mark Kimble, and how they differ from the statements of witness Steven Rayle.

"Mark Kimble, a former Tucson Citizen executive who has worked for Giffords since 2009, said he was chatting with fellow staffers and Judge Roll when he saw "this guy come running in from the south."

"About 15 to 20 people were lined up to the north of where Giffords stood with chief of staff Ron Barber, between U.S. and Arizona flags, Kimble said."

"Even before he got in, he fired some shots, stopped briefly in front of Gabby and Ron and was no more than four feet, probably less, when he fired a number of shots at the two of them and then he stayed there for a couple seconds firing around, he continued north through the area where people were lined up waiting."

He doesn’t mention Judge Roll being shot, which is curious, because it sounds like he was "chatting with fellow staffers and Judge Roll." And Judge Roll was shot and killed.

And now the doctors think that Giffords was shot in the front of the head, not the back. And since when is that a tricky thing to figure out?

http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20110111/UPDATES01/110111036/-1/UPDATES01/Doctor--Giffords-likely-shot-in-front--not-back-of-head - Doctor: Giffords likely shot in front, not back of head, by Alicia Chang, 1/11/11

"Doctors now think that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords may have been shot in the front of the head, not the back. After she was wounded last weekend, doctors said the bullet traveled the length of the left side of the congresswoman's brain, entering the back of the skull and exiting the front. At a briefing Tuesday, Dr. Peter Rhee said it now looks like she was probably shot in the front, with the bullet going out the back, although they can't say for certain. He said that's based on consultations with two specialists who came to Tucson, Ariz."

Specialists huh? What kind of specialists? The kind that tell you what your findings will be? Or else?



WHY might Judge Roll have been the target?

The simplest answer is that he posed a threat.

What sort of threat? A threat to whom?

We don’t know much about Judge Roll yet, and we notice that the media is not falling over itself to tell us about him in much detail, aside from certain points they keep repeating, such as:

  • A devout Catholic who was on the way home from mass.
  • He was going home to “do the floors,” his regular Saturday chore. A man who could presumably afford to hire someone to do his floors, but who preferred to do it himself.
  • A sincere and fair-minded man. “I have never met a more sincere, fair-minded, brilliant federal judge or any judge for that matter in my whole life.” ~ Sheriff Dupnik
  • A fully realized human being. “At least to me and other people who knew him as a person, he was the symbol of what a human being strives to be and he was taken away overnight.” ~ Stephen Paul Barnard, Tuscon defense attorney who has known Roll since the 1970s


But of course, not anymore.


Hei Hu Quan said...

Sharp and concise reportage A.P. If I had to enter a suppositional reasoning of the incident, and knowing what I know of mind-control ops, I'd have to posit that perhaps the visual appearance of Christina-Taylor Green on-site was the trigger for Lougher to begin his wind-up toy terror/murder spree. Much like the girl in the spotted dress was for RFK distraction-patsy Sirhan Sirhan. As evidenced in your report, Christina-Taylor Green was taken to the event by "the neighbour" Carol Hileman, why not one or both of her parents? Also, how many 9 year-olds in this day and age, are captivated and compelled to attend such a mind-dulling, boring, political affair on a Sunday?

Clear to the discerning eye is ritual symbolism infused with this trauma-inducing, and orchestrated street theatre. I find it beyond coincidence that the young girl murdered (possibly sacrificed?) Christina-Taylor Green was born on 9/11, dies on the ninth day of 2011 and was 9 years-old. As you said: "Christina: born on 9/11, symbolic, innocent, good, hopeful, religious, sacrificed."

The fact that Christina was born on 9/11 and repeated by MSM media ad-infinitum is normally irrelevant; however its repeated trotting out does reveal a good level of calculated PSYOPs in this story. As does Lougher's very conveniently packaged and expedited profile, images and history of psychosis. The only thing from it heavily sanitised and censored, is Jared Lougher's reported Jewish background, which sort of short-circuits the whole anti-Semitic agit-prop on the launch pad.

As for surveillance footage of the incident? I imagine you'll see those about the same time the FBI releases the footage of the 9/11 US Pentagon attack, which is basically the 3rd of never of 5000 A.D. I especially loved this quaint little touch: "…Computer forensics is cleaning up the surveillance videos, and images from around the scene, and involved in the investigation - working together, was MCSO, DPS, Phoenix PD, ICE, and of course the FBI". I wonder if by cleaning they mean editing out all evidence of multiple shooters, handlers and other possible accomplices?

aferrismoon said...

Haven't read it all but the idea of conflicting witnesses seems de rigeur in MSM cases.

A plane flew into a building 100%

No It categorically didn't.

Cellphones work on planes
No they do not

etc etc.

I read , in a comment somewhere that a Federal Judge can't attend a political rally , or is that BS.

I find the neighbour and Christina a bit odd. Why wouldn't the parents want to come too. Ok , possibly a chance to relax together - but a political rally , with crowds, ina time of toxic politics, in a state split on immigration. I agree its easy to have an opinion after.

That only leaves 49 Faces of Hope [ 7x7]. Are they marked out as some kind of super children [ apologies for wandering mind] as Christina was noted for her intelligence [ don't most children watch TV] and her obvious interest in politics seems unusual [ not bad] for her age.

Interesting point by HHQ as to whether she acted as a 'trigger' for JLL.

A wee bit of Arcana - The antichrist, in Revelations, suffers a fatal head wound though

"And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast," (Rev. 13:2,3)."

God help us if her right arm is withered and she's blind in her right eye. ;)


INCOMING!!!!!!! said...

AP very thorough digging and caveating. The only thing I would comment about this event as viewed from UKplc is that this smells of a “special 30 minutes operation” and I’ll go with HHQ’s angle. If any of these parties at any other time had jay walked or run a stop sign, there would have been tazers and tickets everywhere. However when a shooter turns up, nada. No choppers overhead, no blackshirts swamping the area, no ATF, no Feds, no tazers or firearms. Zilch.

Smells of op. A sanitised space for the execution of a scene without any specific outcome, though any bonuses will be capitilised upon, but with a general hope of reinforcing a general message long placed in the public realm, though perhaps not yet made overt. All the claptrap MSM confusion, obfuscation, deliberate sensoring, false focussing and cartoon capery, even noticed from over here thanks to the BBC, raise the stench to dead fish rotting in the sun levles. [One very specific I will remark upon though is that I was not surprised to see a comment purporting to be from an Az local at the Twilight Language blog saying that Gifford is really open borders underneath it all]

Viewed from UKplc, and my skewed non linears, this shooting slots into my favourite covert op, the “return the Hapsburg lands” to their rightful owners, the Maximilian Mexicans. Concomitant with that little operation is the stay away from these lands whitey sub-text (kill the girl). So events like Waco and parts of the Gulf Oil Disaster are pieces of a long term, low level ongoing roll back of the Louisiana purchase. The Reconquista doesn’t have any legs unless the operators are ID’s and my favourites for that are the Ba’al Hammon worshippers from Kazaria who want USofA corp out of the old business on the West Coast. The old business that the Pope ( Semitic Prince of Rome) handed to the Spanish (Semitic Muslims) all those centuries ago.

Penny said...

I was listening to Bob Chapman on Meria's show. He thought the Judge was the target, something to do with a recent ruling....
Not much help, but, interesting.

A. Peasant said...

great comments all. Pen, i have to check out your post on this carefully and listen to Dave McG.

HHQ and Ferris, keen observations as usual.

Incoming, i agree this must be tying into a larger narrative. big military bases near the area. drug running. soon teh hezbollahniks arrive would be my guess.

the latest breathless warnings:



Anonymous said...

Excellent sleuthing, AP. Great observation re Sheriff Dupnick, the mind reader. And Obama, too! Or are they reading from the same script? Gosh, is that possible??

And superb work unearthing Susan Hileman's identity and background. And what a background!

"And now the doctors think that Giffords was shot in the front of the head, not the back. And since when is that a tricky thing to figure out?"


I'm reminded of JFK's assassination where the direction of the bullet was critical in concealing the existence of at least one other shooter. And the "cleaning up" of the video to conceal the truth a la Zapruder's film.

malcontent said...

It is inexcusable that our media doesn't demand access to the varied eyewitnesses immediately so that they can do some, you know journalism by reconciling the disparate recollections publicly and achieve some sort of open consensus of the facts of this incident. The now-coached witnesses will roll out with a rehearsed narrative in a dribble that supports a dictated narrative.

Folks aren't as interested in knowing inconvenient facts these days as previous generations. Prozac and self-censoring makes the herd flow more smoothly I guess. Doctored film and compliant minds will moot this chapter and ease us into our declining standard of living.

Anonymous said...

This is complicated!

- aangirfan

bholanath said...

Obo's approval rating is up! 80% thought the speech was great...

Edo said...

Fantastic output AP, excellent comments too.

A. Peasant said...

many thanks. we don't expect it to help but it's worth trying.

personally i thought the dupnik statement about judge roll deciding to stop at the last minute is totally 100% damning.

Switters said...

Didn't know they handed out t-shirts at the memorial rally. Wow.

A. Peasant said...

Switters, i'll tell you, i'm so sick of gabby giffords already.

and i barely watch teevee.

aferrismoon said...

EMS took half-hour to come but the cabbie says the roads were nearly empty on the ride to the shooting.

'As he was leaving the cabbie also the light traffic on Saturday morning perhaps played a role in what seemed at the time to be nothing more than a young man's ride to the grocery store.

''The volume wasn't that heavy because it was Saturday, so he was picked up right away,'' Mr Acosta said. ''And a few minutes later he was at the Safeway.''

Mr Acosta said Mr Marino noticed sirens coming in the opposite direction as he was heading to pick up his next fare, but thought nothing of it until the next day, when security camera footage of him walking into the store with Mr Loughner became part of the investigation."

Directly behind the shopping mall is the University Medical Center, North Hills Physician Office. I think its a working hospital - though its difficult to work out much from their blurb at the site.

In the long run the 'net has shafted politicos big-time so it seems they've got us focussed on a nice person, with a nice smile versus criticism of govt. as incitement [ aka terrorism].

Notice how they focussed on all the right-wingers as using toxic-political discourse, though not one mention of ace proponent of said medium - Howard Stern.


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